Talk:Education

From Pete Ashdown Campaign Collaboration Wiki

1 Input
2 The role of free learning resources
3 Disparity in educational goals
4 Disparity in educational funding
5 Learning the Classics
6 Small Learning Communities
7 The Myth that "One Size Fits All"
8 Evolution vs Intelligent Design
9 Time Magazine: Upcoming Generations Ruined & On the Path to Oblivion

[edit] Input

I would like to see input from teachers, administrators, school board members, etc. -- people who currently deal with the problems of which you speak day in and day out. Input from recent highschool graduates or university students would be helpful too. Teachers know what they need, and I'm sure have some pretty good ideas of what would work. Also, I have heard you talking about making smaller, specialized schools -- similar to the way Europeans divide kids into different tracks in highschool?

That would be great, but we would need to get the word out about the blog. Contact some tech-savvy educators and see if they'd be interested in contributing to the discussion. Dilvie 21:25, 14 September 2005 (MDT)

[edit] The role of free learning resources

One way we could reduce the cost of education in America is through free access to textbooks and course materials. This could also relieve some of the disparity between affluent, and poverty-stricken Americans. Here are some interesting links on the topic:

Dilvie 21:25, 14 September 2005 (MDT)

[edit] Disparity in educational goals

"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. (I've always loved this line from _Alice in Wonderland_.)

We all agree that kids coming out of secondary school should know the "3 Rs." There is a sort of nebulous idea that an education is important to get a job. I agree with John Dewey, who argued that an education is the foundation of democracy. But I don't believe that there is a national consensus on what an education is supposed to accomplish. I suspect that a national consensus would be almost impossible to arrive at. Our country is just too diverse. I do believe that national leadership is essential in encouraging local communities to discover their educational goals, and implementing processes (as opposed to programs, processes are dynamic and change according to need) that will allow them to reach those goals.

[edit] Disparity in educational funding

The largest issue in American education is the great disparity in education funding between states and between regions within states. The later has frequently been addressed by state courts mandating equalization within each state. But the great unaddressed issue of interstate equalization remains untouched because the notion that education is 'tranditionally' a state issue. We need to move beyond tradition if we are to move all of our children into the 21st century with a fighting chance at an improved standard of living.

The goal of federal education funding should be to encourage to equalization of funding between states. Granting more money to those spending the least is a self-defeating activity, as states will cut spending to qualify for more funds. Instead, states must be incentivized with federal money to appropriate more for education as indexed to state income levels and in absolute terms. Such an eqaualization of education opportunity via funding should be the primary goal of the federal government in education.

I really like this as I have received some response in regards to more federal funding in that the states would then relax their own funding programs for education. The question is how are the incentives structured? Maybe a formula on what they spend?--pashdown 12:53, 18 May 2006 (MDT)

It truly is a pernicious problem to find a method that does not reward states for underfunding schools. Plus there is the political problem of passing a funding system under which federal aid would go primarily to poorer states instead of being doled out on a per eligible pupil basis. There are no easy answers, and that is why this is the great unanswered issue in American education; it requires moving beyond symbolic politics that push around pitances of funding relative to the aggregate cost of our educational system. Herein is the tragedy of NCLB; major promises, minor funds.

There are some interesting ideas about how interstate funding equalization might be achieved at the New America Foundation, but no ready answers. We need politicians who will face the problems of the American educational system with an open mind and be honest with the voters about the deep-seated problems and inequities of our system. I don't think a single politician should be expected to have all the answers before he is allowed talk about a problem to the electorate. It's a unique pathology of American politics that open questions are treated as taboo. I call it a pathology because this avoidance of the hardest political issues creates wide-spread ignorance of the real issues, and chokes off the public discourse that is needed to solve difficult public policy problems. --Mbryan 03:41, 19 May 2006 (MDT)

[edit] Learning the Classics

I work in a debate program for Salt Lake City schools. Sadly there is no emphasis on achieving classical education in Utah schools today. Many of the important thinkers that have formed the foundations of western thought are simply bypassed by our elementary and secondary education systems, to simply be handed off to college level learning. Our education system should focus on classical works, like Aristotle, Plato, Soccrates, Hippocrates, Pliney, Virgil, and so on. These classical authors, as well as many others can teach students the foundations of government and how an educated populus can better solve the issues that face us in the future. The greatest part is that many of the classical works are copyright free, accessible in formats that don't require schools to expend large quantities of money of obtaining them as educaitonal materials.

Remington Johnson, 10/26/05 Young Democrats of Utah President

[edit] Small Learning Communities

I just graduated from a high school that was one of the first in Utah to use what they called 'small learning communities' where the students are funneled into a career track and are encouraged to take classes pertinent to that 'community.' This system was pretty controversial, and I am still not sure whether it was good or not. It was beneficial to those who knew what they wanted to do with their lives, but for the fifteen-year-old sophmores, it was intimidating. I think that high school should be a time where everyone should get to try everything so that when they get to college, they can have a good idea of what they want to do. College students change their major an average of like seven times or something, so how can we expect high school students to know so soon what they want to do? Another con of this idea is the lack of being well rounded. A goal of high schools should be that they are able to produce (or what not) students who can think, write, and read in a number of different areas, including the sciences and humanities. So there are some of my ideas about small learning communities.

Kate Sadler, Freshman at BYU, majoring in biochemistry

Kate do you have any idea how many of your peers continued on to higher education? Was this a public program?--pashdown 10:07, November 3, 2005 (MST)

I don't have a number as to how many of us have gone on to higher education, however I believe it was a vast majority of the students. This was a public program. I attended and graduated from Davis High. The small learning communities also had a function to help involve kids that may have felt lost in a graduating class of 700, almost forcing them to be in some way 'connected' to something (whether it be a teacher or people in the class).

I think that schools that use programs like small learning communities (also magnet school programs and semi-public charter schools) are great. Read below for my experience: When I went to high school in the Houston area in the late 1990s, I attended a "magnet school" program. The program drew from all the high school students in the school district, and the program was hosted at one of the high schools. There were about 160 of us in the program (ninth through twelveth grade) that applied and were selected in a competitive selection process from over 5000 ninth through twelveth graders in the school district. Since it was a science, math, and technology focused program our course work in those areas were taught by the program's staff. We even had a few additional requirements like a basic scientific research methods course, a science, math, or technology related project each year, and a required year of computer science. The magnet program also offered additional extracurricular activities to the regular high schoolâs offerings. Our other courses (ie English, most Social Studies, most electives, foreign language, physical education, etc.) were taught by the regular high school faculty. While this may seem like a lot, as magnet program students we were very active and involved in the normal high school. Many of us participated in band, orchestra, competive sports, theater, and other extracurricular activities through the regular high school while we had special opportunities to explore science, math, and technology. Thus, we had a chance to explore subjects that we were interested in more deeply in high school while at the same not being specialized too much (nor forgoing the chance to be well-rounded). I think that magnet programs like this is great because of what I mentioned in the last sentence. Also, during my freshman and sophomore years in high school I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer, but with the emphasis of the magnet program I realized sooner that I did not like chemistry or geometry. That gave me plenty of time to explore other subjects in high school (I graduated from college with a BA in International Relations (political science and economics) this August). I am so glad that I participated in this magnet program because I enjoyed more personal attention from several high school teachers while refining what I was studying early on. Magnet programs could have any type of theme (foreign language, performing arts, humanities, vocational training, college prep, service, sports, etc.), and there are many of these programs as charter schools in places like New York City. Utah could use programs like these more.--Anhhung18901 22:20, 5 December 2005 (MST)

[edit] The Myth that "One Size Fits All"

One of the most destructive ideas ever to appear in education is the notion that "one size fits all". The requirement that all students of the same age do exactly the same work, at exactly the same time, and advance in lock-step for no other reason than because they were born in the same year, stifles creativity, impedes learning, and wastes the time of many students as they're held back to the level of the lowest common denominator. Worse, the standard for the lowest common denominator seems to ratchet downward over time.

Our educational system makes special provisions for students in in the bottom 25% of the bell curve: special education funding and individual programs of study are mandated for those students. We seem to have missed an important point, though: individual programs of study are a good idea for students at every level of ability, and are especially important for students at both ends of the curve.

I just finished reading a good book on gifted education: [Genius Denied] by Jan & Bob Davidson. Along with references, studies and stories of individual students, the book and the associated web site offer several useful suggestions for students, parents, educators and legislators.--Garyt 13:19, 5 December 2005 (MST)

[edit] Evolution vs Intelligent Design

I'm fairly sure we know your stance on this, but you probably ought to spell it out, so that you're clear when you're asked about it.--Gandalfe 16:55, 28 February 2006 (MST)

Evolution belongs in science and biology classes. Intelligent design is philosophy. Curriculum is what parents, school administrators, and school boards should decide, not the state or Federal government. The state's role is to promote model programs that have been tested and are shown to work. If teaching "intelligent design" or "creationism" gets more high-school graduates into college and/or increases American innovation, lets do it, otherwise lets concentrate on what does.--pashdown 08:55, 1 March 2006 (MST)