IRC log started Thu Jul 28 19:58:46 2005
-:- Topic (#pashdown): changed by pashdown: Welcome to Pete's weekly chat.
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pashdown	Hello
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pashdown	Hello again bdh
bdh	good to "see" you<pashdown> Do you want to ask a question to get things rolling?
bdh	ok
bdh	What's your position on coal plants pollution controls?
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pashdown	Coal is about the cheapest power source we have right now.  I don't think pollution controls add too much to the cost.
bdh	"Environmentalism" per se doesn't sell to most of the people in Utah. I figure what you can do is dissociate yourself from some of the images the population of Utah on average dislikes the most, and then say, "but, because of coal plant pollution, this year, there will be over half a million more times an American will struggle for breath in the grip of an asthma attack. Because of this pollution, 30,000 more Americans will die this year. I for on
bdh	r.
bdh	Are you going to bring up Ephedra?
pashdown	In regards to lack of FDA oversight?
bdh	In regards to....yes, that and Orrin's involvement with supplements.
pashdown	Senator Hatch has carried a lot of water for the supplement industry.  I don't think I stand a chance of swaying anyone over from that.  However, I think there can be a better approach than what the FDA is using now.  I'm a big proponent of "interested observers" in government.  In the same way Open Source works, I think government can benefit from people watching the process closely.
pashdown	I don't think things like a garlic pill require much oversight, but something that is an unknown like ephedra does.
pashdown	I also understand that there was a whistle-blower on Vioxx, but they had trouble getting the message out.
bdh	There's a movement towards pre-registration of studies with the FDA being required for it to be accepted, so drug companies can't pick and choose successful ones.
bdh	(broadening the subject to the whole FDA :) )
pashdown	On the other hand, I think congress has shown a real lack of action in dealing with the methamphetamine problem.
bdh	How so?
pashdown	Warner Lambert has developed a mirror-image psuedoephedrine which produces a mirror-image methamphetamine.  The mirror image meth is not effective as a stimulant.  However, the mirror-image pseudoephedrine is actually a better cold medicine.
pashdown	The problem lies in the billion dollar cost in bringing a new drug to market.
pashdown	All of that being in regulation.
pashdown	So if congress wanted to make a huge dent in the meth problem, it wouldn't be hard.
bdh	Congress doesn't understand technology.
bdh	Unfortunately.
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bdh	<psssst> Anybody else here, feel free to join in, I'm not the only one allowed to write stuff. :)
pashdown	http://www.oregonlive.com/special/oregonian/meth/stories/index.ssf?/oregonian/meth/1004_lobbyistsandloopholes.html
pashdown	^ good article about that
bdh	thanks.
bdh	On the FDA again...would you reform the drug approval process? How?
pashdown	I admit that I don't know enough about the problems inherent with the FDA approval process.  However, it seems to me that there are many government agencies that require a rebuilding from the ground up.
pashdown	One person who works for the Feds told me they spend $10 to save $1 in procurement.
pashdown	Then when they come to cut jobs, they get rid of the clerks doing the actual work and leave the administration.
Bob	Would you support legislation on drug advertising?
pashdown	Yes I would Bob.  Advertisements like "the purple pill" have to go.  I think they should be absolutely clear as to what the drug is and what it is for, and not in fine print.
Bob	agreed.  Way too much spent on TV ads, not research.
bdh	I agree.
[innards]	how do you feel about the dr-cafta bill that recently passed the house?
pashdown	It baffles me that those ads actually work.
bdh	They work, as all marketing does.
pashdown	I'm disappointed in CAFTA because I think its close relative NAFTA did nothing but rid the U.S. of many jobs and encourage workers' rights violations in other countries.
pashdown	Our trade agreements should shine the American beacon of hope and not provide an avenue to run away from it.
bdh	Well put.
bdh	Are you familiar with cagw.org ? If so, how much do you find yourself in agreement with them?
pashdown	I am not, but thanks for the link.  I'll spend some time on it.
pashdown	Do they have any statistics on government waste?
bdh	^^ Many.
pashdown	One of the things I have a hard time believing is tax breaks for the oil industry right now, when they're probably the most profitable industry in the US.
pashdown	I read someone pointing out the fact that if oil-shale was such a sure thing, you'd think they'd be able to get investment dollars to back it quickly.
Bob	Pete: It was great to see your post on DailyKos last week about SteveU.
pashdown	Thanks Bob.  I'll try to duplicate news on my diary there.
bdh	Bush and Cheney spent time as CEOs. That taught them how to watch out for their rich friends. You managed XMission, which taught you how to take care of your employees. :)
bdh	(of large companies)
bdh	Hope that "they" don't use a Kos post against you.
pashdown	Find me a conservative Kos and I'll post there too.
bdh	Fortunately, it is too obscure in Utah.
bdh	I think.
bdh	Which item on the military budget do you think is least worthwhile?
pashdown	Man, that is a whopper.  I guess I have to question the building of 28 (?) bases in Iraq.
bdh	I'm guessing nuke bunker busters are up there too?
pashdown	Yeah, that too.  I'm against all new nuclear device development.  I think that we've got enough boom-boom to go around.
bdh	The people behind the nuclear bunker busters don't understand basic physics. It is virtually impossible to penetrate deep enough to contain the explosion, and if you could, it would destroy the warhead. Bunkers could be destroyed  as well by simple strings of bombs - the first one gps guided, and following ones attached to it with a steel cable and having progressively larger retarding fins. Too low tech for defense contractors, i guess.
pashdown	My biggest argument against bunker busters is looking at Hitler's bunker and Saddam's spider-hole.  Of course, I think the military has China on its mind too.
bdh	Give nukes to Taiwan. Problem solved. :P
pashdown	However, a friend who works for the DoD said we could use all our ammunition against China and we'd still be outgunned.
bdh	China is trying to distract its citizens from wanting democracy with nationalism, currently in the form of bashing Taiwan.
pashdown	Our most favored trading partner.
pashdown	^ China that is
bdh	What is your position on farming subsidies?
pashdown	I don't object to subsidies for family farms that need them.  What I object to is subsidies going to corporate farms and non-farms that don't need them.
pashdown	I've heard anecdotal evidence of estates and ranches with "fruit trees" somehow being counted as "farms".
bdh	I don't know about accounting tricks like that, but I understand that they cost a lot of money and hurt developing nations.
pashdown	By stopping trade with developing nations?
bdh	By preventing farmers there from being able to sell to us
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bdh	How could you encourage high-tech business in Utah?
pashdown	I think that protecting American farms and workers first is important though.  Once America is taken care of, then we can start helping the rest of the world up.
bdh	Fair enough.
pashdown	18% of American children live below the poverty level and I think that is shameful.
pashdown	BTW: http://www.insideutah.com/  I am on the latest podcast here.
evan	?
pashdown	Go ahead evan
evan	A few weeks ago, I saw Howard Dean speak at Westminster College. In his speech, he mentioned that it is not the policy of the DNC to support gay marriage. At this point, a woman who had been sitting in the overflow auditorium with me shouted a "Yeah!" of approval. How do you plan to talk about gay marriage in a way that reflects the party's platform, but doesn't give voice to the more conservative elements within the party and within the political landscape
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pashdown	Rick Santorum said marriage is a religious construct.  I think that is why I don't believe government should have a hand in it.  Rick obviously believes otherwise.  Marriage is defined personally and/or religiously depending on a person's faith.  The government shouldn't go beyond that and define that for the populace.
pashdown	I told the Deseret News that I think that defining marriage is invasive and I still believe that.
pashdown	Does that answer your question Evan?
pashdown	In regards to partner benefits, I think anyone should be able to dispense benefits on whoever they choose.  It doesn't have to be based on a sexual relationship.
evan	Excellent response. I'd argue, however, that marriage brings with it certain civil benefits.
pashdown	I read your mind on that one ;-)
evan	yes, yes you did
evan	haha
pashdown	For example, if my sibling is disabled and I'm not married, why should I not be able to bestow benefits upon them?
evan	i absolutely agree
bdh	<fiddler on the roof> Tradition!
bdh	i also agree.
pashdown	Any other questions for tonight?
Bob	nope.
bdh	Thanks Pete.
pashdown	Thanks for the good questions.
bdh	One more
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bdh	Will there be an in person meeting sometime?
pashdown	Go ahead
bdh	For your political supporters?
pashdown	I think I'll try to do something like that in August, maybe over at the SLC library.
bdh	Thanks again. I need to go now. Bye.
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pashdown	Bye
IRC log ended Thu Jul 28 20:58:28 2005

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